• Chris Hanna

Gene, oh Gene, how I beat you with your own god.

Updated: Nov 16

Gene Hamilton (don’t worry I have no idea who he is either) was kind enough to respond to my thoughts on looking into the eyes of god and what I would do should just an opportunity arise.  The following is his commentary succeeded by mine.  I apologize in advance for the heavy sarcasm as this is how I deal with trolls.

He begins: What the Bible teaches: Second Peter 3:9 says that Jehovah “does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” Rather than focusing on our mistakes, he focuses on our good points. God’s “eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”—2 Chronicles 16:9.

Hellfire is not a Bible teaching—the very idea of eternal torment is repugnant to God. His maximum punishment for the wicked is to revoke the gift of life. (Jeremiah 7:31; Romans 6:7) And natural disasters, which destroy indiscriminately, are not acts of God but, rather, unforeseen occurrences that can affect anyone.—Ecclesiastes 9:11.

How knowing the truth helps you: We can draw closer to God when we recognize that he is “ready to forgive” and not quick to condemn. (Psalm 86:5) We need not serve God out of feelings of guilt or a morbid dread of punishment. Instead, we can build our faith with the best motive—love of Jehovah. Such love serves as an uplifting force that moves us to do our best to please him.—Matthew 22:36-38; 1 John 5:3.

While God wants everyone to turn to doing good, he knows that many will never do so. If he never acted against those determined to do bad things, then he would be no different from a ruler who makes laws without enforcing them, allowing injustice and suffering to flourish indefinitely. (Ecclesiastes 8:11) Our knowing that God will not tolerate wickedness forever gives us a sound hope for the future. God has promised to remove those who persist in evil deeds, so that “the meek ones” can enjoy eternal life on earth as he originally intended.—Psalm 37:10, 11, 29.

My ruminations:

To begin, Gene, you really should learn to direct comments specifically to the original post lest you be accused of proselytizing unwarranted sermons. The concept of the note was a rumination upon the thought that if I were to be directly confronted by god, thus making the argument of existence irrelevant, would I put down my torch and refrain from ignition the perilous pages of his litigious book at his behest? 

Would I set aside my disdain through revelation that it was all part of his perfect plan (an omniscient deity can never be wrong you know) and that he (spare me this identifier for sex is immaterial) is the architect at the helm of this perfectly suited world for his most loved creation, for whom the universe was created? 

Not perfect for us if you know anything about the vast unlivable expanses of the cosmos and even more specifically earthbound. Of course I know you do, or at least you think you do, judging from the essays you delivered in response to my dear Thomas Jefferson’s platitude of questioning everything including the existence of god but all in due time sir. I do not apparently have the vast time to defend my apostasy as you would have me. Except for tonight it would seem

Truly I would not grovel, not only for the reasons I listed, noting that there are many more that did not make the list. But, to avoid a biblical case of incessant redundancy I chose, for brevity, to omit some. Or was that pretentious? You decide.

Now we move to your wonderfully warm and cherry picked version of the truth as many like you are want to do. I make no absolution and decree my bias as I am only human but I will openly state you can’t have your impotent god and blaspheme too. Once again establishing that existence is not the topic at hand but the conceptual legitimacy of your verses upon the rest of the “good” book.

Does he really want everyone to find repentance and find your dear salvation? You remember my nickname for you I hope, it would be a shame if you had not. 

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. 

As per your prescription Peter sure seems to think the trials and tribulations of the holy father show his love through deception and manipulation of the child he loves just so. I made you for myself because I love you, but I also made you weak and possibly evil through blinded eyes and hardened hearts, I deluded you in telling you with my infallible word of your damnation to test you out of love, a test that if you fail you fall forever. None of this is proof that god doesn’t want “everyone” to be saved but it is a point against your statement of sterile and bleached cotton tunic love.

From here you move to chronicles in a effort to bring your sky king into the hearts of the people, to make it personal as they say in the marketing business, you know, when you are selling something someone doesn’t need.

“eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”—2 Chronicles 16:9. 

Here we see your direct plucking of a ripe cherry amongst the tattered and bruised rot of the game of telephone that is god.

2 Chronicles 16:9

For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the entire earth, to strengthen those whose heart is true to him. You have done foolishly in this; for from now on you will have wars.” 

Here we see punishment for using an army and ally not the prayer to god for gain, gains earlier given through the killing of Ethiopians and Libyans in war backed and propelled by god. Even within your quotations you abbreviate the wrath and curse of war because any more than a partial print of god gives rise to doubt, wherein we all know that if your heart is not “complete toward him” you will be spared his strength of presence. Quite a benefit I should think since he hardly seems the person to trust with one’s thoughts.

After that little debacle you confusingly move to these little dittys…

Jeremiah 7:31  And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. 

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 

Simply put you incorrectly read this as the fires of hell. This is clearly a case of ritual fire sacrifice common to the faiths of the gods before the monotheistic god of abraham particularly it was part of the Canaanite or Phœnician worship of Molech or Malcom (Leviticus 18:21; Leviticus 20:2-5) . The people burning their sons and daughters in sacrifice, in places of scorn or Tophet, is different only in that your faith required only one man to bear the blood sacrifice, to me even one is too many. 

And on to the Romans, the brevity and far reaching scope of this statement even when contextualized with its accompanying declarations only refer to those who have found god in the shape of a malnourished and tormented martyr. This sin can only be freed by death if the heart has been given to god/jesus (or is it god AND jesus I can never tell) leaving another massive influx to the hell you brush aside as “not a Bible teaching—the very idea of eternal torment is repugnant to God.”

Well let me introduce you to Matthew and Mark, they seem to disagree with you. Many others in this good book would agree as well, but again for brevity’s sake I leave them be in the false history of which they revel.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9 If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41, 46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. … And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48 … into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 

Whew, pretty hot in here now… Maybe some sarcasm will properly flavor this heretic stew I am brewing for you since you will have so much raking do out there in the interwebs, you must be starved. I’d like first, before you eat, to point to your merciful psalm and bring in the heavy hitter, you know him as the heavyweight king of the worrrrld, yes of course it’s old testament god.

Psalm 86:5

For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee. 

This is a fun one as its always a great time to bring out the biblical skeleton in the closet (or would it be better stated as the hulking elephant in the room?) I am not even going to write anything witty or cantankerous, as you by now know I am quite capable, because your holy book does all the work for me. 

Numbers 25:4 And the Lord said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.

Deuteronomy 7:16 And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pit upon them.

1 Samuel 6:19 Because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand, and three score and ten men.

1 Samuel 15:2-3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.

Trust me there is more but, really, why? I imagine the lord your god, stepping over the bloodied bodies of children, leaving size 10 red prints in the sand reaching toward you and your family exclaiming his mercy then mumbling under his breath only those whose devotion is absolute and unquestioning. I mean, you never know when he might want you to murder your child, not the fun one that everyone knows where god stopped it in the nick of time but the black sheep… oh merciful Judges 11: 30-39…

Judges 11: 30-31 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt offering.” 

Judges 11: 34-35 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” 

Not to omit…

Judges 11: 39 At the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to the vow he had made. She had never slept with a man. So there arose an Israelite custom that

Lest we forget the love of the christ, he bade us obey the lord through love, he preached the love and died for the love. Or so they say, its really unimportant to me the logistics of it but I would like to remind you that to blaspheme is to doubt, to doubt is to put forth less than a complete heart to god and thus deserving of some of his famous mercy. Best kind in all the universe, only comes in one flavor though… Blaspheme, you think, I keep mentioning that, well that’s what I call it when you dont carry the full weight of the words of the lord you god, once again a cherry pick leads you to omit the most famous words of your savior. I wonder why? 

Matthew 22: 36-40  “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Is it because to love thy neighbor is to love those that are different than you, to love those that live life different than you would have them, to carry on in all manner of vice while you pray to your god they don’t get the right to marry because that surely will bring about the destruction of marriage. You know because half of marriages end in divorce and the percentage of religious divorce is even higher than that of non religious.

It is here I digress. If I find the interest to debate wickedness as mentioned in the last portion of your first comment in the future I should return but whence I speak to you again, dear sir, it shall be of creation and your fallacy.

Only those who fall victim to the virus of faith see god everywhere.

#god #jehovah #Christianity #hell #hitchslap #atheism #bible

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  • Chris Hanna

Gene, oh Gene, how I beat you with your own god.

Updated: Nov 16

Gene Hamilton (don’t worry I have no idea who he is either) was kind enough to respond to my thoughts on looking into the eyes of god and what I would do should just an opportunity arise.  The following is his commentary succeeded by mine.  I apologize in advance for the heavy sarcasm as this is how I deal with trolls.

He begins: What the Bible teaches: Second Peter 3:9 says that Jehovah “does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” Rather than focusing on our mistakes, he focuses on our good points. God’s “eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”—2 Chronicles 16:9.

Hellfire is not a Bible teaching—the very idea of eternal torment is repugnant to God. His maximum punishment for the wicked is to revoke the gift of life. (Jeremiah 7:31; Romans 6:7) And natural disasters, which destroy indiscriminately, are not acts of God but, rather, unforeseen occurrences that can affect anyone.—Ecclesiastes 9:11.

How knowing the truth helps you: We can draw closer to God when we recognize that he is “ready to forgive” and not quick to condemn. (Psalm 86:5) We need not serve God out of feelings of guilt or a morbid dread of punishment. Instead, we can build our faith with the best motive—love of Jehovah. Such love serves as an uplifting force that moves us to do our best to please him.—Matthew 22:36-38; 1 John 5:3.

While God wants everyone to turn to doing good, he knows that many will never do so. If he never acted against those determined to do bad things, then he would be no different from a ruler who makes laws without enforcing them, allowing injustice and suffering to flourish indefinitely. (Ecclesiastes 8:11) Our knowing that God will not tolerate wickedness forever gives us a sound hope for the future. God has promised to remove those who persist in evil deeds, so that “the meek ones” can enjoy eternal life on earth as he originally intended.—Psalm 37:10, 11, 29.

My ruminations:

To begin, Gene, you really should learn to direct comments specifically to the original post lest you be accused of proselytizing unwarranted sermons. The concept of the note was a rumination upon the thought that if I were to be directly confronted by god, thus making the argument of existence irrelevant, would I put down my torch and refrain from ignition the perilous pages of his litigious book at his behest? 

Would I set aside my disdain through revelation that it was all part of his perfect plan (an omniscient deity can never be wrong you know) and that he (spare me this identifier for sex is immaterial) is the architect at the helm of this perfectly suited world for his most loved creation, for whom the universe was created? 

Not perfect for us if you know anything about the vast unlivable expanses of the cosmos and even more specifically earthbound. Of course I know you do, or at least you think you do, judging from the essays you delivered in response to my dear Thomas Jefferson’s platitude of questioning everything including the existence of god but all in due time sir. I do not apparently have the vast time to defend my apostasy as you would have me. Except for tonight it would seem

Truly I would not grovel, not only for the reasons I listed, noting that there are many more that did not make the list. But, to avoid a biblical case of incessant redundancy I chose, for brevity, to omit some. Or was that pretentious? You decide.

Now we move to your wonderfully warm and cherry picked version of the truth as many like you are want to do. I make no absolution and decree my bias as I am only human but I will openly state you can’t have your impotent god and blaspheme too. Once again establishing that existence is not the topic at hand but the conceptual legitimacy of your verses upon the rest of the “good” book.

Does he really want everyone to find repentance and find your dear salvation? You remember my nickname for you I hope, it would be a shame if you had not. 

Proverbs 16:4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

John 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned. 

As per your prescription Peter sure seems to think the trials and tribulations of the holy father show his love through deception and manipulation of the child he loves just so. I made you for myself because I love you, but I also made you weak and possibly evil through blinded eyes and hardened hearts, I deluded you in telling you with my infallible word of your damnation to test you out of love, a test that if you fail you fall forever. None of this is proof that god doesn’t want “everyone” to be saved but it is a point against your statement of sterile and bleached cotton tunic love.

From here you move to chronicles in a effort to bring your sky king into the hearts of the people, to make it personal as they say in the marketing business, you know, when you are selling something someone doesn’t need.

“eyes are roving about through all the earth to show his strength in behalf of those whose heart is complete toward him.”—2 Chronicles 16:9. 

Here we see your direct plucking of a ripe cherry amongst the tattered and bruised rot of the game of telephone that is god.

2 Chronicles 16:9

For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the entire earth, to strengthen those whose heart is true to him. You have done foolishly in this; for from now on you will have wars.” 

Here we see punishment for using an army and ally not the prayer to god for gain, gains earlier given through the killing of Ethiopians and Libyans in war backed and propelled by god. Even within your quotations you abbreviate the wrath and curse of war because any more than a partial print of god gives rise to doubt, wherein we all know that if your heart is not “complete toward him” you will be spared his strength of presence. Quite a benefit I should think since he hardly seems the person to trust with one’s thoughts.

After that little debacle you confusingly move to these little dittys…

Jeremiah 7:31  And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart. 

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 

Simply put you incorrectly read this as the fires of hell. This is clearly a case of ritual fire sacrifice common to the faiths of the gods before the monotheistic god of abraham particularly it was part of the Canaanite or Phœnician worship of Molech or Malcom (Leviticus 18:21; Leviticus 20:2-5) . The people burning their sons and daughters in sacrifice, in places of scorn or Tophet, is different only in that your faith required only one man to bear the blood sacrifice, to me even one is too many. 

And on to the Romans, the brevity and far reaching scope of this statement even when contextualized with its accompanying declarations only refer to those who have found god in the shape of a malnourished and tormented martyr. This sin can only be freed by death if the heart has been given to god/jesus (or is it god AND jesus I can never tell) leaving another massive influx to the hell you brush aside as “not a Bible teaching—the very idea of eternal torment is repugnant to God.”

Well let me introduce you to Matthew and Mark, they seem to disagree with you. Many others in this good book would agree as well, but again for brevity’s sake I leave them be in the false history of which they revel.

Matthew 13:41-42 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9 If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:41, 46 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. … And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48 … into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 

Whew, pretty hot in here now… Maybe some sarcasm will properly flavor this heretic stew I am brewing for you since you will have so much raking do out there in the interwebs, you must be starved. I’d like first, before you eat, to point to your merciful psalm and bring in the heavy hitter, you know him as the heavyweight king of the worrrrld, yes of course it’s old testament god.

Psalm 86:5

For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee. 

This is a fun one as its always a great time to bring out the biblical skeleton in the closet (or would it be better stated as the hulking elephant in the room?) I am not even going to write anything witty or cantankerous, as you by now know I am quite capable, because your holy book does all the work for me. 

Numbers 25:4 And the Lord said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel.

Deuteronomy 7:16 And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pit upon them.

1 Samuel 6:19 Because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand, and three score and ten men.

1 Samuel 15:2-3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling.

Trust me there is more but, really, why? I imagine the lord your god, stepping over the bloodied bodies of children, leaving size 10 red prints in the sand reaching toward you and your family exclaiming his mercy then mumbling under his breath only those whose devotion is absolute and unquestioning. I mean, you never know when he might want you to murder your child, not the fun one that everyone knows where god stopped it in the nick of time but the black sheep… oh merciful Judges 11: 30-39…

Judges 11: 30-31 And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, “If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt offering.” 

Judges 11: 34-35 Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, “Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.” 

Not to omit…

Judges 11: 39 At the end of two months, she returned to her father, who did with her according to the vow he had made. She had never slept with a man. So there arose an Israelite custom that

Lest we forget the love of the christ, he bade us obey the lord through love, he preached the love and died for the love. Or so they say, its really unimportant to me the logistics of it but I would like to remind you that to blaspheme is to doubt, to doubt is to put forth less than a complete heart to god and thus deserving of some of his famous mercy. Best kind in all the universe, only comes in one flavor though… Blaspheme, you think, I keep mentioning that, well that’s what I call it when you dont carry the full weight of the words of the lord you god, once again a cherry pick leads you to omit the most famous words of your savior. I wonder why? 

Matthew 22: 36-40  “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest? He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”

Is it because to love thy neighbor is to love those that are different than you, to love those that live life different than you would have them, to carry on in all manner of vice while you pray to your god they don’t get the right to marry because that surely will bring about the destruction of marriage. You know because half of marriages end in divorce and the percentage of religious divorce is even higher than that of non religious.

It is here I digress. If I find the interest to debate wickedness as mentioned in the last portion of your first comment in the future I should return but whence I speak to you again, dear sir, it shall be of creation and your fallacy.

Only those who fall victim to the virus of faith see god everywhere.

#god #jehovah #Christianity #hell #hitchslap #atheism #bible

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