Failure to be The Greatest Story Ever Told: The Burden Rests with You
Updated: 6 days ago
Right from the beginning I will shift the burden of proof to you. You clearly make the positive statement that humanity “WAS” created in god’s image and any time you make such an unsubstantiated claim I will repeat my Socratic mantra: “How is it that you know this?” Your only sources of knowledge on this are contradictory human written books, the personal testament of people who “feel” it to be the truth, and of course it may be the only thing you were taught as a young person so as to imprint only one possibility of creation. To repeat there is absolutely no scientific, demonstrable evidence of a singular human pair of ancestors, that everything was perfect before gods particular brand of sin, or any other declaration of the genesis creation account that on principal can explain better the evolution of species than evolutionary biology.
You mention Adam and Eve, once again I seek some evidence that supports a single pair could be the ancestors to our species, and their original sin. Does it not bode well that within days of the perfect creation, of the perfect universe, on the perfect planet, the creature lucky enough to be given god’s own image did what it was created with the ability to do, think? I mentioned perfect so many times on purpose but more on that in a minute. Is it strange that knowledge giving fruit is not found or is it even logical as no consumption of anything translates directly to intelligence; is it also not strange that even your revered free will did not include the ability to tell good from evil?
Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Some freedom that would be, free of cognition and situational analysis, and free of what makes us human. Also the sin of leaving the hand of god and the role of an empty mindless puppet is a positive in my mind… I find it enlightening and liberating to have one’s own wisdom versus “sightless” primitive eyes no more intelligent than an animal groveling before a master.
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Well now on to your assertive statement that the universe was created perfect but mankind lost its union with god as the rest of the cosmos having not sinned retained its harmonious perfection? What is your definition of perfection? The universe is a dangerous, destructive, mostly uninhabitable, cacophony of nuclear explosions, and most importantly has always been in the 13.78 billion years of its existence.
And please don’t give me the “that’s why Earth is special” hallmark card; if the probability of life was a billion to one that would give a probability of 100-400 stars in our galaxy meeting that requirement. That us just our own galaxy, there are an estimated 100-200 billion galaxies in the universe leading to the mathematical equivalent of 10,000 and 80,000 life star systems each with potential for multiple life bearing planets. Do you believe that all creatures and crawlers are sinners? The terrible spiral of death and decay assaults everything living thing that is, was, and ever will be; so is that perfection?
Furthermore if god created everything in perfection and “Since God is the origin of all good things” god must have created and is the origin of all bad things as well. If perfection is to be stated, and I assume you mean the perfection an all knowing and all powerful being would be capable of, then would not the perfect creation human only need all good things since the ability to fall would be considered an imperfection?
Next I will confirm your suspicions that I equate all religion alike in that they are false and presumptuous to believe something without evidence. From here I will state for the record that I believe that judaism, christianity, and islam are all part of the same single point of gestation. The one callous, jealous, and insecure god of judaism IS the one god, or three ridiculous parts if you wish to get specific, of christianity and is the harsh, bigoted, destructive god of the islamic nations. When muhammed supposedly received his prophesy he sought the jews to confirm and submit to his prophet hood. Also the cretinous muhammed ‘s recited holy text has large portions of exact replica of the judeo/christian bible with notable characters such as Abraham and Moses.
Moving on, “To blame God for our horrible actions” you accuse… I do not blame any god for the actions of humanity, I give no quarter to ANY person who uses faith or religious influence for personal means or gain. I simply point out to you that in all faiths and theology chosen leaders have and still do destroy life on a whim. I need not cover the “representatives” of allah and his incendiary mercy but what of the past of judeo/christian values. I blame those events on the absence of any real god, any being that can sit and watch the genocide of its creations by others of the same creation and has the power to intervene but does not is anything but benevolent, and if such a “deity” does not have the power to intervene then I shant say it would be worthy of my worship. And one more point, if you could please tell the clergy to stop raping children, that’d be great.
Oh now to one of my favorites, god wants man for fellowship and personal relations. This is a nice sentiment but if you could just show any case where it can be conclusively proven in a time of less than say 50 years where a supernatural force intervened in such a way to cast aside the doubts of possibility and chance confirming a supernatural personal god. For a creature seeking fellowship with humanity, the ghostly absence of any kind of validation besides random personal testimony is sadly lacking in the verification arena.
Sin is bad for me you say, thus god commands it… Who told you it was bad? How do you know that if I say goddamn, have wonderfully satisfying premarital sex, and make a spaghetti and meatballs deity to worship that it will be bad for me. Because the book says so? Is that the inerrant word of god specific and unalterable? Because god is a petty and childish imp as to be
Exodus 20:5 “…for I the LORD they God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.”
Therefore I disclose my own personal evidence that I have long denied and even hated the fictitious god of tribal desert men whilst befalling no curse or hatred of a supernatural being or even seeing a hint of evidence that such a creature exists.
Also stated “Since sin entered the world, and corruption by sin, disease came to be where there once was no such thing and so, “millions die daily of malnutrition and disease”. This is also due in part to the ignorance of those living healthy lives, the selfishness of individuals who know, but refuse to help, or organizations that claim to help, but pocket the majority of the aid received.”
Samuel, you mention sin as the basis for corruption and famine paired with disease as a direct result in response to my statistical fact. Your burden, once again, is to show me that disease did not exist before six to ten thousand years ago and your ridiculous assertion that adam’s sin caused it. I contest that the world was a very sick and maligned place for billions of years as virus’ and bacteria have plagues all higher forms of life since the evolution from single cell to multiple and complex. You imply the impoverished conditions of others on the corruption of humanity so have you removed yourself from any and all christian denominations and become specifically a biblical literalist?
The catholic church is responsible for the murder, through ignorance, of hundreds of thousands every year on the African continent as they instruct their mindless followers that condoms are worse than AIDS. Have you removed yourself from all faith based charities as there can be no question that few are impervious to the sins of greed and in fact many have been found to have gluttonously fed on the donations. Do you not live a clean and comfortable life with which “you could always sacrifice a little more”? The faithful are just as complicit and the political in the arena of human suffering now and were directly responsible in the past, and intervening personal god I think not.
“As for, “the bloated promise of a better life in the after where you will get everything you were promised but did not receive in this one…”, this line of thinking is obviously based on the lack of proper context.”
I quote this because in the immediate following you give your reasoning but never your context. You convey accusations as to the improper interpretation of the book you yourself have interpreted in English no less. Please interpret in gods specific context Leviticus 27:30-33 & Leviticus 27:30-33 in reference to your assertion that “There are many preachers that say ‘give to this ministry and you’ll be blessed’ just to get someone’s money. That is their promise, not God’s.” well the above passages state that this is your payment to the house of god, I can hardly believe the writers of the good book would not say”Oh you don’t have it? Well I guess Moses will have to come by after the sabbath and break your freaking legs”. Also you say that the reader is encouraged to interpret the written words of the bible to find the truth where it hides among the false gospels? So much for an infallible unchangeable word of god…
You also have taken in error, partially, the differentiation of the word jealousy and envy as they are the same in today’s tonal cadence or simply used in twine as a hybrid. But in all I did not say jealous with the intent of envy, I meant jealousy outright and pathetically as distinctly claimed in the judeo-christian bible. The commandment above uses the term explicitly as well as:
Deuteronomy 6:15 for the LORD your God, who is among you, is a jealous God and his anger will burn against you, and he will destroy you from the face of the land.
Psalm 78:58 or they provoked Him with their high places, And aroused His jealousy with their graven images .
1 Corinthians 10:22 That same idea is present in the New Testament. After a discussion of idolatry in the church of Corinth, Paul asks, “Or do we provoke the Lord to jealousy?”
So I conclude that the lord your god is a jealous creature, one whom treats humanity as a pet or as property with which to do as it pleases and logically is quite absurd if it really is the one true god and there are no others before it… I mean shouldnt “god” know that it is the only god that created everything” There is nothing about the distraction you provided about envying your own creation as that is absurd and apologetic to say the least.
Next my declaration of a negligent and childish imp has come into question by your admonition “As I stated before, God does nothing simply for His own amusement, as a “childish imp” would be disposed to do.” To create life on a planet and in a universe where most of the things in it are trying to kill us intentionally, predators , bacteria, virus’, and all manner of germs, or unintentionally, tectonic movements creating natural disaster, climate instability, future asteroid impacts, and the eventual destruction of the solar system with the death of the sun would be something that child might do to a bug on a hot summer day with a magnifying glass. Or would you prefer to address god’s negligence in protecting hundreds and thousands of deaths years as a result of natural phenomena all over the earth. If you dare try to pawn off nature as the result of sin you would clearly take a hit in the public relations department after this discussion.
But wait “Answering prayers is one of ways He does that.” By “that” I am referencing your admission that god does intervene in life by answering prayers. Well all I can say is his seeming lack of concern for the masses destroyed in the multitude of ways I just mentioned is something of a childish, negligent manner. Oh but he helped that one lady with her glaucoma that one time. Yeah ill take the safe protection from the travesty of a tsunami over trivial and in no way provable medical “miracles”.
“If God has an “outright lack of divinity”, then He’s not God. If He’s not God, how can you be upset at Him for not doing something about the “torture and genocide of its creations”? This is circular logic.”
Only circular for you dear sir. I am not and cannot be mad at what I do not think exists. You have the burden of proof to show that you logic is not circular as you tell me that your personal god is the one true god of the bible.
“But then, He doesn’t “demand faith and servitude lest thou be damned”. The Bible says that God created Hell for the devil and his angels. In other words, it was never intended for man in the first place.”
He does exactly this… I don’t know how to make it any simpler… You have to believe and bow before the lord, profess your love and servitude and accept christ as “you one and only savior” otherwise you go to hell. That is what it says…
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.
So now we have to talk about “him”… I get it, the sacrifice, the romantic notion that he was willing to give up everything for you and any who would accept. But once again you have nothing but an ancient book and a gut feeling that Parthenogenesis is really possible in a time when if it wasn’t god that impregnated this woman she would have been crushed to death by hand wielded rocks… There are multiple conflicting accounts of the death directly in your book from the day of preparation before, John 19:14, or on the day of passover after the feast, Mark 14:12, to the account of the Pilate and the trial where Jesus says only two words and everyone is together in Mark but in John Pilate has to walk back and forth between the jews who would not enter the headquarters because they were yet to eat the passover meal and jesus who was in the headquarters already, to the resurrection who went to the tomb and what did they see?
And the resurrection… Bart Ehrman Jesus Interrupted Page 48- Who actually went to the tomb? Was it Mary alone (John 20:1)? Mary and another Mary (Matthew 28:1)? Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome (Mark 16:1)? Or women who had accompanied Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem—possibly Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and “other women” (Luke 24:1; see 23:55)? Had the stone already been rolled away from the tomb (as in Mark 16:4) or was it rolled away by an angel while the women were there (Matthew 28:2)? Whom or what did they see there? An angel (Matthew 28:5)? A young man (Mark 16:5)? Two men (Luke 24:4)? Or nothing and no one (John)? And what were they told? To tell the disciples to “go to Galilee,” where Jesus will meet them (Mark 16:7)? Or to remember what Jesus had told them “while he was in Galilee,” that he had to die and rise again (Luke 24:7)? Then, do the women tell the disciples what they saw and heard (Matthew 28:8), or do they not tell anyone (Mark 16:8)? If they tell someone, whom do they tell? The eleven disciples (Matthew 28:8)? The eleven disciples and other people (Luke 24:8)? Simon Peter and another unnamed disciple (John 20:2)? What do the disciples do in response? Do they have no response because Jesus himself immediately appears to them (Matthew 20:9)? Do they not believe the women because it seems to be “an idle tale” (Luke 24:11)? Or do they go to the tomb to see for themselves (John 20:3)?
“Grace is what differentiates Jesus from all other so-called gods. They all demand blind obedience or judgment, but Jesus extends grace.”
Your grace is to harsh for me, jesus is not real enough for me, and in conclusion your god too absent and weak for me. But I implore thee, prove thyself for thou art most responsible as defender and messenger of faith, for thine god surely loves you. Even if it is all just your imagination.